Cobb

(Cobb, look at your definition of intrinsic racism, at the sentence "the extrinsic racist would argue that the Jew is so greedy..." - I think you meant "intrinsic".)

Ah, ha, Michael, here I am, one of the clueless. I've been a participant in many undoing racism workshops and am hoping to become a trainer myself. And I am white. You must find this amusing. A bunch of white people sitting around talking about something they can't possibly understand. THAT is, my friend, my point. I am unfortunately inarticulate about it. What my Greensboro friends can't understand is that just because they can't see racism, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I haven't seen a million bucks, but I know it exists. I haven't seen God, but...okay, bad example. What my point in a lot of language is, racism is alive and well and I don't see it. I don't have to. But it's there. That's all. And if I can't see racism, how do I recognize who is racist. Somebody has to be. Why, in our own county, a member of David's party marketed a t-shirt with a picture of a boy urinating on the NAACP logo. That was an easy one. It's the more subtle ones that white people don't see. They just can't.

As long as we're talking,we may, just MAY find some solutions.

Unfortunately not in MY lifetime.

Damn!

This is disturbingly difficult to answer. My gut reaction is to advise you not to fight shadows. If you can't see it, should you go looking for it?

I believe that all the subtle racism is really not worth fighting. If blackfolks are too weak to handle subtle racism, then maybe they shouldn't succeed. The point of getting healthy is not to try and eliminate every microbe, but to strengthen the immune system. At some point you have to have a line in choosing your battles. Are you fighting crime, or just making people comfy?

If I were to go on an anti-racism crusade today, I would probably go back and review Theodore Cross' book again. It's over 20 years old, but it did have facts and figures. It's called "The Black Power Imperative".

I look at racism in terms of its ability to retard blackfolks. I look at the progress of blackfolks in the same terms as anyone else. What is a good nation supposed to deliver to its people? A political voice, work, safety, justice. How do you measure it? Look at the objective measures. Now figure out how racism impacts X or Y.

But here's the thing. Racism is decreasing and the strength of blackfolks is increasing. One of the reasons people can't agree is because the stakes are small. When the stakes are large, clarity is easy - everyone can see the problem, but when it's an insult on a t-shirt? How does that stop Jamal from getting a job?

Let's go back to Effective Resonance
http://www.mdcbowen.org/cobb/archives/000032.html

Not fighting shadows is good. Every now and then I hear a complaint and I think "if that's the worst you have to complain about, you're in pretty good shape." But it may not be the worst. It may be that people are not prioritizing problems and shrugging off the trivial stuff. If I know that you are not going to complain because somebody locked their car doors in front of you or some such crap, then I'll pay attention when you do complain.

I get very tired of loser-talk. Cobb, you talk like a winner. It's inspirational. It's why I keep reading your stuff.

Hi Cobb,



It's cool you have an opinion, and it's cooler you back it up with some reasons. Sure I disagree with you, and I don't think a bunch of mostly-white people blogging it up and trying to figure out what racism is and isn't will do much but shore up existing belief-walls.



Also, I think it's easier to get to your definitions looking at it on a person-by-person basis -- however, racism can exist on an institutional as well as a personal level.



That being said, here's a good study & online survey from some Harvard folk designed to pull out subconscious bias. Go to https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ and click the “Demonstration” button.



-Joe

I took those tests when they first came out and had no problem passing. But I don't think implicit assumptions do anything more than indicate individual bias. Further I don't think that the negative assumptions that any individual might possess necessarily rises to the standard of actionable offense.

Understand that whatever people think, and I strongly believe that most people want to do right, that desire doesn't necessarily translate into action, nor is translated action necessarily effective. The reason I am not impressed with anti-racist theory is because it doesn't translate into action.

The good news is that the same is the case on the flipside. A bunch of fools driving pickup trucks with the stars and bars doesn't do jack. So I basically shut out the noise on both sides of the equation. I want to see political impact. I want to see economic impact.

Heck Cobb, good answer. I thought in the shower this morning that not discussing it is worse than discussing it. Good discussion generates ideas, and ideas seed action.
So here goes. The "actionable offense" level of racism is waning. The subtle level that exists happens for a few reasons, class-based inertia being a major one.
I want to know how you deal with something like Harvard's legacy program? "Eventually it won't matter"? Or, "there are more important things to focus on"?
I think the strength of your argument lies in its "lets be honest here" angle. Yeah, definitions get weaker the more complicated they get. But this issue is about momentum and perception as much as it is about action and economics. You're not going to get action without momentum.

While I respect the principle behind arguments against Harvard legacies and do generally agree that uniformity breeds complacency, my first thought is to qualify the questioner.

Last night I was arguing to myself about this or that related to race raising, it's part about a piece I'm writing now called 'what do you mean we?'. The question i had was related to those people who dig at the morality of corporate wealth. I doubted that any of them would bet $100 bucks on the fate of Wal-Mart, or know how quickly and easily they could be a part of the investor class. Here's eTrade, login and buy a stock. Five minutes.

See, I know that there's a great component of racist complaint that eminates from people who are great moralizers but don't *know* much. Because they are essentially right and seek to push provocatively when everybody else loses energy and interest we tend to respect them as 'watchdogs' or as 'canaries' in a moral coalmine. But I wouldn't expect a watchdog to know the value of the house he guards, or to negotiate its price. Nor would I expect a canary to work out the chemistry that helps to explain the toxicity of mine gases. Likewise everybody who doesn't make it into Harvard because of legacies is not necessarily qualified to get into Harvard for any other reason. But I don't want to hear complaining from people who don't even apply to Harvard or couldn't locate Harvard on their own career path.

There's a lot of ignorance out there that is explained away as the result of a 'general racism'. It's not necessarily stupidity but it is ignorance. The arguments come in the form of the provocation, 'where are all the black physicists?' and then some ridiculous statistic begging questions of racist discrimination. But you're not hearing stories about the black kid who was doing calculus at the age of 12 who was denied a math scholarship because of some racist legacy. If there are no black kids doing calculus in middle school, if there are no black retail owners competing against Wal-Mart, then there aren't.

Bring it down to cases. What is racism stopping YOU from doing? Oh, are you that demoralized? Maybe you need some pride pills. There is one guaranteed way to beat racism and it is not to pray that the oppressor relent.

I dont mean to simplify things but as far as I am concerned racism is an IGNORANCE of another persons culture/race. What people dont know they are generally SCARED of. It works from and to any culture/race. I have first hand experience as I live in London in a mixed relationship and have an angel of a boy who is 5, and have experienced problems from white and black people. Live life as a Human Being and treat others as Human Beings and there would be more harmony. Im not saying it would solve everything but it is a bloody good start. Im no hippy but you know what that is the way I live my life. In any walk of life understanding anothers culture or race is difficult but if we all try just a little, surely that would at least put our children on the right track.
Peace