Cobb

cobb, really enjoy your writing and perspective. read whittle yesterday and was amazed. my wife even made me print it out. (she's a born-again elephant) good to see he's getting his fair play. JR

I too enjoy reading your perspective. Yes, we need to return to those old school core values our future depends it.

Pop it in the VC wiki under "Conservative Brotherhood." This is a nice grab bag of some of the principles and traditions many of us, from many persuasions, grew up with and now practice pretty much instinctively. But I question this coopting of the term, "old school," which you've used to label them. A few things occurred to me:

* I'm under 40, and when I hear the term, "Old School" I still instinctively think of hiphop. The other way I might think of it (outside of a specific context) is in reference to a style of education. Learning by rote, for example could be considered OS.

What I'm getting at is OS is in reference to something. It's Old School hiphop, or an OS way of macking, dressing, walking, teaching, whatever. In other words OS is an adjective/adverb and here there seems to be lacking a noun of some sort. Plenty's implied, but you could still be more explicit.

* OS to me implies an commonly identifiable tradition (or set of traditions). Whether it be in music, art, politricks or whotnot. And usually it's the first identifiable tradition(s) of a particular period of time. In which period do you suppose OS, as you've defined it, held sway?

* You're cherry-picking certain ideas and definining those as OS. You should more properly call it, "The Best of Old School." Cuz there're a number of traditions that come along with any period that are no longer practiced in more enlightened times, and rightly so.

(The best of) Liberalism cherishes the best of older traditions but continues to evolve and progress, adding and morphing to create a new set of best practices as human knowledge and experience grows. This is how we can now reject some "old school" values like women shouldn't work outside the home or that the lighter-hued Blacks are better than the blue-Blacks.

* In this context, what does, "We recognize that every brotha ain't a brother" mean? You're not a brother if you don't believe in Cobb-defined OS values? Just checkin.

* It's kind of comical at times watching some of your CB brethren trying to balance the last themes Liberty, Pluralism, and Piety. It's somewhat ironic that "tolerance" is at the bottom of the list.

Yes indeed memer. I've noticed a peculiarity in the language you've used in order to ask what the precise definition of 'Old School' is. Here is what sitcks out the most:

"And usually it's the first identifiable tradition(s) of a particular period of time."

And..

"In which period do you suppose OS, as you've defined it, held sway?"

"period of time"..."holding sway"...?

This is approaching Heideggerian existentialism, and to the extent that I've read Mr. Cobb's comments which include the word "existentials", I find also that I'm left wanting for a more precise defintion of 'Old School' which is not bound by the value positing of a previous period in history.

But the fact is that value ideas are historically relative. In other words, very few "values" are transhistorical in character. What then, is the Best of the Old School, and in what time period did these 'values' dominate the culture?

However, as he stated in an email once, he has yet to define it definitively.

I could have merged Old School with that thing which Murray identified as 'The Blues Aesthetic' and someday I might, but when I was thinking of Old School I was thinking of it in the context of grandfathers who had no problem spanking their kids, and also the tradition of 'Old School' pledging in black fraternities.

That hiphop has appropriated terms that are beyond their skill level is nothing new. They're just sampling.

Negroragesaidwhut?! Kiddin. Yes, NR, we'll sit and wait together. Not holding my breath tho. In the inbetween time I'll call it The-Best-of-1950's-Old-Schoolism. *washes hands*

And Cobbster, the nifty thing about the 'sampling' (and remixing) is that it makes beats relevant for the present age. Your turn.

Speaking of old school, my son and some of his friends were admiring a high school yearbook pic of me.

Check the living legend.

They told me that I was OLD SCHOOL becasue of the 'fro and the tight uniform. To me, the dudes three years before me were really old school, because they wore the Original Chuck Taylor Canvas All-Stars, whereas I wore first generation leather Nikes.

Old School means slow dancing, which completely predates all hiphop. Sample that.

Not to press a point, but slow dancin is nowadays called "bump an grind." It still exists (as as did fast-dancin backinthaday, eg swing/lindyhop, etc)...ugh...this is starting to get all wobbly.

Alright, Cobb, I'll leave it alone now. I know this whole thing is really about you tryina get your elitist swerve on anyway. That's your thing. "I'm not like those people," you huff in the mirror. Okey dokey. I just hope that you and your tribe do extend a hand to those not yet in your rarefied company and not blow up the bridge. You blow up the bridge and that's a two-way isolation, bruh. The filthy masses can't reach you, but know that you can't come back neither.

Bravo!