Cobb

Funny how you want to "claim" him as being a conservative, yet when his wife said the killer of their son learned American style racism, it was the conservative commentators who went to town on her and him. Remember when he supported Tawana Brawley?

Or his support of the Rainbow Coalition? Or the NAACP?

Man your are right on point!

Brawley isn't policy. You could be anywhere you want to be on that issue and it doesn't mean anything.

It's perfectly predictable that Cosby was supportive of the Rainbow Coalition and the NAACP. They are both pro-integrationist and all about middle class college educated values. Sure both have fallen off, but the real points on Cosby are not focused on that. I could be wrong because I'm not reading from Dyson's playbook, but we could go through this point by point.

There are two points to be made here which is Cosby and his end of the black middle class are going to continue to get more press and the ideological divide between him and Dyson is real. It's not going to be a carbon copy of mainstream liberal vs conservative but it is liberal vs conservative nonetheless, especially when it comes down to the terms of the Culture Wars.

I know that there are basically three pieces to black politics, progressive, liberal and conservative and I think people should come correct from their direction when criticizing Cosby. Dyson sets up a false dichotomy of the Black Middle Class vs the unwashed Forty Percenters when he presents Cosby as wrong. That's because Dyson's point of view, decidedly liberal-left is not being up front about that. Dyson expects to be THE black elite, and he can't afford us all. That's what I'm trying to set straight here.

Part of Coz's criticism was that the Black middle class wasn't doing its part, as well as the Black lower class. That seems to get missed in the mix.

I'm still trying to get a handle on the "progressive" stuff, so I can't say a thing about the three components you listed. I agree that Dyson set up a false dichotomy. He's been doing it for a bit.

I'm a bit tired of it all really.

Ever notice that it is only the liberal, intellectual negroes who come out to refute any criticism that attacks black people who engage in irresponsible behavior? If it isn't someone citing white people's fear of genetic annihilation as a cause of racist oppression then its another who says that the black middle class "has lost its mind." You never hear anyone from among the group of black folks that are being criticized. For once I'd like to hear a gangbanger publicly explain why he committed that drive by near a middle school or why that 17 year old girl who lives in the projects just had to have that second child with a different father. Thank you Bill Cosby for finally saying the things that many black folks of all social strata say among themselves. Oh yeah, and thank you Michael Eric Dyson for being yet another negro intellectual who is out of step and out of touch with the practical reality of most black people.

You never hear anyone from among the group of black folks that are being criticized.

Because no media ever goes to them.

Think about this: the popular Black conservative pundits have as much in stake in "Black pathologies" as does the "Black liberal race and poverty pimps".

To date, I haven't read any media attacks on Dyson that have stood up for the Black middle class.

Not one. If I'm wrong, show me and I'll retract.

But, to me, that says something, especially when the data is out there that shows the Black middle class "gives back".

My opinion about Mr. Cosby's comments has "flip flopped" for some time now. At first I nodded my head in agreement. Then I took a deeper look into the way Cosby delivered his speech and his possible motivations. Although I still agree with his words, I am not longer so sure that he meant well. What strikes me, and I think you pointed this out in your post, is that he made it a class-based attack. He was not speaking to "blacks" he was talking to "poor blacks". He didn't send his message in a stern yet compassionate tone, he was talking down like a parent to a child. I couldn't put my finger on it for the longest time until I came across Mr. Dyson being interviewed on a news station. I believe Cosby, at that moment, was more concerned with dissassociating himself from poor blacks than helping poor blacks. It's the "Im not like those blacks over there" mentality. That is why the delivery does not sit well with me. I don't believe we have come this far by being divided along class lines. It use to be "our" problems that "we" needed to fix. However, Cosby made it a middle class v. lower class battle and the media loved it. Who wins when we are divided like this? Those who stand up to become black leaders should work with the communities to come up with solutions that all blacks can be a part of but I don't think we will get far turning our backs on one another according to who makes more money and who has less. Who are middle class black people trying to prove themselves to when they dissassociate themselves from poor blacks?

What other people on the planet have given us the example of demonstrating their morality by sacrificing their wealth to placate their poor? In other words, why is it that black middle class people have this unique and special burden placed on them to spend all of their time helping out the poor, criminal and dysfunctional just because they have the same skin color?

Mike, Jewish people.

What Jewish people where?

Let me be more specific. The American Civil Rights Movement was a gift to the world. It essentially allowed everyone who was willing to sell out, to sell out. Not only here but in every constitutional democracy. We raised the standard. But the Civil Rights movement was never designed to raised a criminal class, or an untouchable class to social equality. I am being extreme here, but at some level you have to admit that there is some class of people that Civil Rights cannot help. Some segment of the population falls exactly where Cosby says they do, and I say he has a valid class gripe.

Jewish people in the U.S., especially during the time when they were fighting for Soviet Jewery. I think that was the phrase I saw a lot in the late 70s, early 80s in heavily populated Jewish areas in and around Baltimore.

I'm not suggesting middle class blacks must help the poor. Nor did I say anything about sacrificing wealth. There is no obligation at all Cobb.

There are those who want to help and those who do not want to help. For those who *want* to help, dividing us up among class won't solve any problems. The reality is that there will always be a certain amount of poverty in each group. This is the way of capitalism. However, there is a greater amount of poverty and an abundance of social issues in our community because historical and current socioeconomic variables.

With that said, black people must solve their own problems regardless of where the problems derived, because we can't hold our breath waiting for justice.

But talking down to poor blacks will lead no where. It only allows the black middle class to feel better about themselves and raise their standing in the eyes of those white people who are equally inclined to chastise blacks. Where is the solution in that?