Cobb

I wish you'd elaborate on your complaints about my post; what you wrote is currently too cryptic for me to understand.

It's not a complaint at all (although I could have and should have given it a full post, and I understand your frustration).

What I'm saying is that you are now saying what black people were saying ten years ago, but when black people said it, people said we were crazy. Go anywhere and ask people who care about the murder of Biggie Smalls what they think about the LAPD and the LATimes about covering up the truth, and you'll hear a lot of sympathy for your point of view.

It's not easy being a skeptic.

btw, this is the original post that i left on my home pc without saving the draft, also incomplete:

Patterico has dipped his finger into the shit stew that was the LAPD business surrounding Suge Knight and the murder of Biggie Smalls. Back in the day, lots of people smelled an entire warren of rats around this tangled affair. I wish I could find more of my own writing on the subject. Maybe there's some at Salon's Table Talk. It's one of the reasons I left LA.

What I ended up doing, which made me late for work, was going back to discussions I had in '97 on the LA Riots over at Table Talk. I also found something in which I defended Parks vis a vis the consent decree. But I know that when I read Poole's story (somewhere) that I was convinced that the black bank robber guy was very very dirty and that he knew who killed Biggie, but it was a can of worms that the LAPD couldn't really deal with, and the political credibility of Parks was largely in play.

In a way I do blame the LAT in a more broad way than their politics, but on the professional strictures of journalism itself - exactly in the same way I blame the SJMercury for punking out on the guy who wrote the book about the FBI/crack story.

See, there's really a lot going on here and a fragment just shows how pressed I was for time - but I also posted about the Manhattan Beach PD on your site, and I really didn't feel like getting into all of this either.

Heyyy, I resemble that (litmus dump) remark. Yeah, I thought you might think that but Cobbster your shit is mad dense. Too dense, I think, to get thru the straw sometimes, yahmeen? Then again, mebbe it's me who's the dense one.

Anyhow, I figgered there's got to be a simpler way (to say it). I have actually read thru some of this big-ass manual (including your very first post -- which I did when I first discovered your blog a few weeks ago). I still think you're not actually a CONSERVATIVE, at least not in a political sense which I believe is the most dominant connotation these days (and the context in which you most often use it).

If you essentially ascribe to liberal views, but with the odd conservative stance, dat don't make you Conservative. Being a crotchety old fart with a kids-today squint doesn't necessarily make you a Conservative, either (who, at the end of the day, is the Cos gonna vote for?).

I still say, til I get it more plain and straight, that you're an Independent (tho perhaps tilting toward the conservative side of the aisle).

I'm a (way amateur) philosopher at heart, Cobb. I just like to get terms better defined. No offense intended.

p.s. yes, I read your litmus test, too. inconclusive.

I chose my True_Liberal handle because when I read the definition of liberal in my dictionary, I decided it fit me FAR better than it fit those who like to call themselves "liberal", who are indeed socialists and most il-liberal in their views and principles.

Now I've found a gaggle of black "conservatives" who reject the standard definition of conservative, and seek to redefine it to fit their own outlook.

I found a dictionary at a yard sale yesterday. You may borrow it to look up "principle".

When we began to talk about what old school values means in an effort to describe black conservatism it is pretty clear that we talked about it in class terms as an attempt to take over definitions of black life from the black lower class. so agre's first definition fits. It's the second that is the question. it could be that because of the unique conditions that blacks in america face, that black conservatism--just like black liberalism, and black nationalism--actually has a positive impact on democracy, properity, etc. etc.

Thank you Spence, that makes sense.

What I'm saying is that you are now saying what black people were saying ten years ago, but when black people said it, people said we were crazy. Go anywhere and ask people who care about the murder of Biggie Smalls what they think about the LAPD and the LATimes about covering up the truth, and you'll hear a lot of sympathy for your point of view.

What I find interesting about what you're saying is that it would require substantial percentages of black people to reject the party line of people like Maxine Waters or John Mack, who have always been supportive of Suge Knight.

See, there's really a lot going on here and a fragment just shows how pressed I was for time - but I also posted about the Manhattan Beach PD on your site, and I really didn't feel like getting into all of this either.

I was in Hermosa Beach last year and saw the PD there deliberately humiliating a Hispanic guy in front of his girlfriend. He was being arrested for driving on a suspended license. He was being polite throughout. They didn't have to treat him that way. I know this kind of thing happens.

When we began to talk about what old school values means in an effort to describe black conservatism it is pretty clear that we talked about it in class terms as an attempt to take over definitions of black life from the black lower class.

poppycock. and besides, why? what the hell would be the point of all that? don't black lower class share the same value system??

so i ain't too proud to say it: y'all still be talkin funny. i like to think i'm a little brighter than the average bulb (heck, i skipped grade 5), but you guys talk way over my head, up in the cloudy stratosphere. bring it down some; talk to me like i'm a brightish 14yr old. in any event, you'll have speak a lot more plainly to reach more of the masses (which is the end-goal, here, no?).

wrt cobb's old skule values:
pride, patriotism, family, industry, piety, liberty, pluralism

i fail to see how those were discussed in terms of class.
not a one of the values as outlined by cobb would be out of place in the average liberal's manifesto, black or white, rich or poor.

your old skool mantra != (does not equal) conservative (political) party views. they're often two separate things. I dare say there is some ideological confusion here and I hope you will in the end agree with me that it needs to be better defined and separated.

btw, the latest cbs/bet poll showed there are farrrr more Black Independents than Black Conservatives. c'mon fellaz, Lead the real movement.

Patterico,

I find it difficult to believe that John Mack would defend Suge Knight under any circumstances, and although I wouldn't put it past Maxine, a citation would be nice.

I'll bring this up separately and I'll try to put more dumb things in Fragments from now on.

Sorry. I retract the statement about Mack. My memory failed me. I meant to cite Danny Bakewell.

Do you accept that Bakewell is a Knight supporter? He testified at Knight's probation violation hearing to try to keep Knight out of prison, calling Knight a "compassionate person."

Maxine Waters is quoted at page 39 of the book "LAbyrinth" by Randall Sullivan as telling reporters: "The only thing Suge is threatening is the status quo."

Bakewell? In a heartbeat. Danny Bakewell is off the chain and basically engaged in whatever schemes he can get into. I'd put nothing past him.