Cobb

When a leftist says that American society is no better than, for example, Arab Muslim societies, what he means is that American society does no better at producing good people than does Arab Muslim society....If there is less brutality and cruelty in America than in the Middle East, it is only because American law and social customs keep it under control better.

I'm confused. I agree with the painfully obvious part, that is, that all man are susceptible to evil and temptation, but I disagree here somewhere, too, but I'm not sure what's wrong. If he's saying you will find good or bad people everywhere, well then, yes, but ...

There's a contradiction in there somewhere, and I think part of the problem is the lack of a definition of "better people."

When we're talking about societies, we can't really judge what is in men's hearts. Different societies create different temptations, and thus men in them may be prone to different sins. Rich societies may be consumed with greed, whereas poor ones may be consumed with envy, to be cartoonish about it.

But I'm not sure what I'm getting at here. Sorry for being vague.

I'm asking questions like: Do you think the people who grew up in Wisconsin are better people than those who grew up in New Jersey? They certainly seem a lot nicer in the Midwest ... they're more polite, less suspicious, more welcoming.

Does any of that make sense?

IB Bill: I think I know what you are getting at. Answering it completely would require another long post, but in brief, there are two issues. First, I may have over-stated the case a little. Societies probably have some small effect on the conscious of its citizens, but it isn't nearly as powerful as leftists think.

Second, goodness is a complex issue. The Wisconsinite, William may be nicer to strangers than New Jersyite, Jim. But that is because they are each following customs they learned in their society. What happens when no one is looking? Maybe William cheats his customers but surly Jim is always honest.

"...When leftists say that Abu Ghraib is revealing, what they mean is that this demonstrates the existence of that underlying current of evil --a current that exists as surely in America as anywhere else.
Again, the left is correct. What they fail to understand is how utterly obvious that fact is to conservatives. Of course there are brutal and cruel people in America. Of course some of these brutal and cruel people are in the military. Of course even otherwise good people sometimes do evil things... "

What the Hollywood elite don't like to even think about is their own culpability. Grossed-out scenes in "Survivor" are but a minor sample of the inhumanity-role-model in America's TV and movie world.

Is this a good and sufficient excuse? Of course not.

Is this a clear piece of the puzzle? I think so.